Adam O’Brien: "MOST people are POOR because they accept this one HUGE money LIE we’ve been told..."
10+ year bitcoin OG explains why you’re thinking about money all wrong and what is holding people back from abundance
(Catch the interview here👆)
Adam O’Brien: Most are poor because they accept this one HUGE money lie we’ve been told
10+year bitcoin OG explains why you’re thinking about money all wrong and what is holding people back from abundance
🎙 Playable Characters Show Ep040
Summary:
In this conversation, Brandon Gentile interviews Adam O'Brien, the CEO of Bitcoin Well. They discuss the importance of Bitcoin for independence and the mission of Bitcoin Well to enable independence through non-custodial Bitcoin services. They also touch on the challenges of scaling a business in the fiat world and the mindset shift required in the Bitcoin space. O'Brien emphasizes the need to hold Bitcoin and the dangers of falling for altcoins and scams. Overall, the conversation highlights the core principles of Bitcoin and the importance of spreading awareness and understanding. In this conversation, Adam O'Brien discusses the long-term investment potential of Bitcoin and the risks associated with altcoins. He emphasizes the importance of self-custody and the need for individuals to take control of their own Bitcoin. Adam also shares his personal journey with trading cards and the nostalgia and collectibility they represent. The conversation concludes with a word association game, touching on various topics related to Bitcoin and the future of the industry.
Presented by:
Bio of Adam:
Enabling independence @thebitcoinwell | Love Jesus, save in #bitcoin
Connect with Adam here:
Twitter - https://x.com/adamobrien_?s=20
Compay site - https://bitcoinwell.com
Timestamps:
00:00 The Importance of Bitcoin for Independence
09:02 Building Bitcoin Well and the Shift in Mindset
15:00 What Bitcoin Well Does
23:58 The Fallacy of Altcoins and Scams
26:50 Bitcoin as a Long-Term Investment
30:12 Understanding Ethereum and Altcoins
37:28 Adam's Orange Pill Story
41:20 The Future of Bitcoin and Decentralization
47:35 The Importance of Self-Custody
50:22 Adam's Journey with Trading Cards
52:30 Word Association Game
Transcription:
Brandon Gentile (04:19.795)
Mr. Adam O'Brien - Bitcoin Well, the first publicly traded company to… and you can you can explain it you know, not the micro strategy style, but you can, we can touch on that. I'm going to leave that kind of open and as you can kind of touch on that here in a second, but really a freedom maxi Bitcoin maxi. We're going to touch on that too, a little bit because what we were joking off off stage about was the interview you did a couple of years ago, going into the Ethereum, the Ethereum you're on stage and I Sean, I forget his last name, but Sean, you guys are going back and forth. Yeah. Yes. And thank you. And it was, it was a great conversation and it was kind of like the
It was just like a sign of the times in a way, like the conversation you guys were having and you were just so adept at kind of just weaving through that and kind of explaining things to people that, you know, whether it's a Bitcoin or but a lot of people who don't understand Bitcoin or why we're here. And like you touched on just a second ago, just a freedom maximalist and doing things for freedom in that base foundation layer. And then we can build off that. So anyway, appreciate having you on today, brother.
@adamobrien_ (05:04.814)
Dude, thanks so much for having me. It's a pleasure to get connected and chat here.
Brandon Gentile (05:18.291)
Absolutely. And we in the show is playable characters. So it's, you know, always kind of the joke of non playable characters versus playable characters. Right. And there's very few people that are thinking critically thinking today in this world and or or it's, you know, again, people that are just it's putting the cart before the horse type of mentality, which is, again, what I want to touch on here. I want to get kind of even some of your thoughts of just like what's on your mind right now, what what's grinding your gears, but also this world that I can't stop thinking about where we're.
@adamobrien_ (05:34.446)
you
Brandon Gentile (05:46.707)
We have a lot of smart people like this interview you talked about where, you know, people are trying to build these amazing things and beautiful things, but they're doing it on this faulty system. You know, Jeff Booth always says, right, you can't fix the current system from the current reality. And so, you know, please touch on some of this where we are. And like I said, this conversation was so great you had with them a couple of years ago, but it really is the thing that I think is the hurdle to get people to understanding what Bitcoin is and this real monetary radical shift we are going through.
@adamobrien_ (05:59.694)
Yeah.
@adamobrien_ (06:16.238)
Yeah, man. I think ultimately it comes down to the fact that people, people think money is real rather than a representation of time. And like the key difference there is people want to like, I want to make more money. I want to be rich. I want to, I want to invest more. I, I, I need more gains, any more fiat. And, and they like, we've been so good. They've pigeonholed us so well into this box where it's like,
keep earning more money. Like the system is literally programs that you earn more money throughout your life because the money becomes, you know, so much like worth so much less. But what we, what we fail to realize is what matters, which is purchasing power. And ultimately all purchasing power is, is our energy. It's, it's the value that we're able to produce with our time. And so I was actually, I was just in Vancouver, um, giving this talk at a meetup and it's like, Bitcoin is a horrible investment.
Brandon Gentile (07:01.925)
you
@adamobrien_ (07:08.846)
an amazing savings tool. Because when you invest in Bitcoin, it means you want to sell Bitcoin. And when you sell Bitcoin, you are always punished down the line, because you're taking your fiat gains and then putting them into something that is ultimately going to perform worse than than Bitcoin. I mean, some of the worst things I've ever done is diversify outside of Bitcoin. People are always like, you know, they see the Bitcoin price and we catch up like old friends or whatever. It's like, oh, what's your exit?
Brandon Gentile (07:11.571)
you
@adamobrien_ (07:38.126)
you know, when, you know, when do you take some chips off the table? It's like, what would I do with them? Like, where, where would they go? Like the money still has to exist. I still want to preserve that value into the future. What am I going to do? Go buy like stocks and bonds of some failing system. Like, you know, put it into, into Fiat, like for it to just literally be programmed to lose value. Like Bitcoin is the only money that is actually programmed.
Brandon Gentile (07:46.323)
Yeah.
Brandon Gentile (08:01.011)
you
@adamobrien_ (08:05.422)
to maintain and sometimes even increase your purchasing power, why would I exit that? In what world would you exit the perfect system? And so it's just a broken mindset. We're taught from such an early age, you have to invest, you have to diversify, you have to prepare for retirement, and we're kind of put into this box, but the box is sitting on top of this, like you said, this unstable foundation.
We need to completely remove those foundational lies that we've been telling our children and our generations for like, honestly, half a century. Like it's, you know, 1971. Like it's been a half a century at this point that we've been lying to the up and coming generations and we have to just remove that. And I think like with very few targeted and specific questions, people get it. But we're not thinking that way off the hop.
which is what makes this so challenging.
Brandon Gentile (09:05.683)
And I just didn't talk to you about this for hours and it just this mental hurdle in a way of getting to this place and understand. And I don't know what it is. I mean, I know you pondered this obviously for years you started, you know, again, you I think what people need to know about you again, as you started Bitcoin Well, what 2013? So 10, we're looking at 10, 11 years ago. And, you know, there's not many people that grow business in general. There's not many people that scale a business like you have taken it public.
I mean, you're in a very select few amount of people and then to be in Bitcoin on top of that and be so early in that space. I mean, you're really in rarefied air. There's no other way to put it. So first off, how are you not one of the more famous people in Bitcoin? I guess that's maybe one of the questions I just thought of to be quite honest. I mean, that's wild.
@adamobrien_ (09:51.364)
I, uh, I, I, yeah, I appreciate those, those, those kind words. I think I've just, I've been so heads down, um, working on, on building and scaling the business. And I think I've put very little, honestly, I think it's, it's like the Fiat maximalists do a good job of, of making us, you know, me, um, self -conscious. I think it's like,
Brandon Gentile (10:03.507)
Mm.
@adamobrien_ (10:18.958)
there's a heavy amount of imposter syndrome that plays into that. And honestly, like the amount of people, and I've got a funny story about this actually, when we went public, you know, it was kind of like at the peak of last year, and we put a lot of effort into my brand. That's kind of when my brand really started. And my dad got some messages from some of his friends, people that had known me my whole life, and they were like, oh man, Adam got so lucky getting into Bitcoin so early.
Brandon Gentile (10:47.859)
Thank you.
@adamobrien_ (10:48.398)
And my dad lost it. He was like, Are you kidding me? Adam hears the word no. Adam hears the you know, the like, he gets told that he's crazy. He gets called the most heinous of names, you know, on a weekly monthly basis. And he's like, this kid just doesn't stop. He doesn't quit. He just keeps going, going, going, going, going. And so but, you know, it's true, I do keep going. But but the amount of baggage and imposter we both look it's like who's
Brandon Gentile (11:06.131)
Yeah.
@adamobrien_ (11:16.078)
who's who's ringing. The amount of like baggage and imposter syndrome that creates is heavy. And I think I had some, like some misconceived perceptions about where but how important my brand and my story is, I think that like, honestly, like we exist to enable independence, I fully believe there are 8 billion people on this earth that need independence. And Bitcoin is a massive contributor to giving them that independence. And so
Brandon Gentile (11:35.667)
You hear
@adamobrien_ (11:44.238)
Yeah, I do feel a little bit like I downplayed my own role in that. And I had you know, this baggage of imposter syndrome sitting on top of it. And then the last few years, I've just been like, to hell with it. Like, it's go time, man. And, and have been leaning into, you know, spreading, spreading the message, spreading awareness. We've got an incredible team here at Bitcoin Well, and they've been able to pick up, you know, some of the slack that I've been pushing down and
And yeah, it's been a really positive kind of last few years. And this is, I think, kind of the year where it all goes boom.
Brandon Gentile (12:18.515)
Really quick on the business, where I know it was a year or two ago maybe watching some of your stuff that you were up to 70 employees. Where are you guys at right now just organizationally?
@adamobrien_ (12:29.486)
Yeah, completely the opposite. So we are down, I think 12 people full time. Um, at this point, man, it's crazy. Like going through that go public, um, uh, period in our business, I developed such a high time preference Fiat mindset and you could see it's how we scaled and how we grew the business. And it's so toxic. Um, to be clear, I think everyone that worked here was very, very positive and each and every individual was very good.
but I got trapped in the scaling the fiat way, which is, it's almost kind of a badge of honor in that world, how big you can grow it. And I think too, on the nth degree, watching Elon versus, like the Elon Twitter versus the Jack Twitter, and Jack's even come out and said, I didn't do a good job. And I think he too got kind of caught in that fiat world.
Brandon Gentile (13:01.395)
Yes.
@adamobrien_ (13:27.662)
And that's what I did too. And so now what we've done, so when we were doing layoffs, cause like we, we scaled up like create, like the full story is we went public, we had some bankers go public and I wanted to raise a pile of cash. I said, look, raise a little bit of money, double the business, and then we will raise you a ton of cash. And I was like, all right, let's go raise a little bit of money. We tripled the business actually through like just incredible amounts of unsustainable growth. And then the pin, you know, goes into the Bitcoin.
Um, you know, like, what was it October or November 2021, you know, Bitcoin doesn't, doesn't, it's not number go up forever. The investment bankers are nowhere to be found. And we're stuck with this bloated ecosystem, cranking out products, but with a bunch of unsustainable growth. And so, um, I had to really look inwards. We had to do a ton of layoffs, which like absolutely murdered me. And, and I was like, you know, my time preference has to shift as a business leader. And.
Brandon Gentile (14:06.299)
Yes.
@adamobrien_ (14:27.214)
That's what we did. There's a lot of maturing to do through the last bear market, but ultimately, you know, we've got a business now with some pretty low time preference. And I think that's a really positive thing. You know, even right now, like our numbers are through the roof right now and we're doing everything we can not to hire. And that mindset, that key, you know, relatively simple, but important shift has been really important. And I think we'll add to the longevity of our business.
Brandon Gentile (14:34.803)
Wow.
Brandon Gentile (14:51.667)
That's incredible. And, you know, I, I, we need to bring out the monkey or the elephant in the room, but you know, what is, what is Bitcoin WellDo? So it's for people that don't know. Let's touch on that. We just kind of like ran right into it, but what is, what is Bitcoin WellDo for the person that doesn't know or hasn't heard of Bitcoin WellBefore?
@adamobrien_ (15:00.266)
Right. Yeah. Bitcoin well, as a non -custodial Bitcoin platform. And so.
We have two different sides to the business. The first business that we launched was Bitcoin ATMs. So I deployed in 2014, Alberta and Saskatchewan's first Bitcoin ATMs. We grew up a small network in Western Canada. And then over the years, I've grown that to over 200 Bitcoin ATMs across the country. That's business unit number one, like pretty boring, cash in, Bitcoin out, non -custodial, like super simple. It's not, it doesn't see the insane FOMO that, that, you know, cycles kind of predict it's relatively stable.
Yeah, it's a great cash flowing business unit. And in 2022, I realized that there's more to Bitcoin than just accessibility. Our mission at that point was Bitcoin accessibility. And so went through a really solid exercise with the team around what is our core mission? Why do we exist? Why is Bitcoin so important? And we landed on, we want to enable independence. That's why we're here. The money is broken. The censorship is out of hand. North America is...
falling to the depths of third world country status and what do people need? They need independence. And so with that mission, we knew Bitcoin ATMs weren't gonna be enough and we had to launch the Bitcoin portal. Most Bitcoin exchanges that you use, you give them money, you do trading on their platform, there's no real Bitcoin actually changing hands and then you request withdrawals. I find that absolutely offensive. That is not why Bitcoin exists. That is a fiat.
That's applying Fiat principles to Bitcoin to sell money. And it's just horrible. And so we flip that on its head. We've employed a non -custodial Bitcoin business model, which means we're direct to consumer. When you send us an e -transfer in Canada, you get real Bitcoin on the blockchain. Like my fastest time is nine seconds, but on average is about 30 seconds before Bitcoin's on the blockchain. In the USA, we've just launched down there. You connect your bank.
@adamobrien_ (17:09.134)
money changes, you know, money goes from the bank to the platform and then boom, same thing, Bitcoin out real Bitcoin on the blockchain immediately and by default. And it's this automatic self custody piece that makes Bitcoin well so different. And now the super exciting piece is we've got this, this cash, you know, the Bitcoin ATMs, we've got the Bitcoin portal in Canada and the USA. Now we can start playing with this ecosystem. And how do we give people the convenience of modern banking, but also,
Brandon Gentile (17:16.211)
So cool.
@adamobrien_ (17:37.55)
them hold and control their own money. And that's now the fun begins.
Brandon Gentile (17:44.861)
And thank you for explaining that too. I'm sure there's some people that are like, what do you do? What's going on? Very cool. You know, it's funny your story. I really relate to your story. I was in real estate for 10, 12 years after I left playing professional hockey. And I thought that was the world to be in, you know, really from 2010 or 2012 up until 2022. And when I, when I finally left and said, I need to be in this Bitcoin world full time because I was just being pulled away.
my heart was in another place. So over the years, it just was, just I realized, hey, this was not where I was supposed to be. Technically I needed to be here for a while, but you know, that type of thing. But I was very uncomfortable though, to your point of this scaling and putting, you know, getting employees and like we had a number of employees and we had a bunch of, you know, agents and like things like that and felt very uncomfortable because the fiat world didn't make any sense to me. And before really getting into Bitcoin, it just didn't, nothing made sense, right? Like it was just like, what am I feeling? Like, why am I feeling this way? And like you said, like,
you watch CNBC or you watch anything. And it's like, you got to scale quarterly earnings calls. And again, you touch on time preference, which is so beautiful because it's fiat, right? It raises the time preference and it lowers people's attention spans. And you're constantly in this like grind for more and more and more and more. We're trying to do more ridiculous things and scale, scale, scale. And no one even knows why half the time it's just like, it is what it is. We got to keep doing it. It's capitalism. Yay. You know, and it's like, that's not how this works. And no one could ever explain why that wasn't the case because we've all grown up in this.
@adamobrien_ (18:49.986)
Yeah.
Brandon Gentile (19:11.699)
fishbowl of Keynesianism for 110 years, basically, right? Where we had central banking, there's no choice, there's no way out. Do we know we're wet? We're fish living in the ocean. So does he know he's wet? Like he doesn't know anything else. He doesn't know deflation. No one living today knows anything but inflation and money or currency that's been destroyed, money that was money and now it's become currency. So it really is fascinating. So I really resonate with that story you shared. What's a big thing that you...
@adamobrien_ (19:25.934)
Totally.
Brandon Gentile (19:39.315)
have learned over the last 10, 11 years of building the business, being in Bitcoin, what are some of the big things you see between running the businesses and people leaving, coming into the space and then leaving the space? Because a lot of the OGs are gone. They're either not around anymore or they are off to some altcoin or they're doing whatever. What has kept you consistent in just that foundational North Star where a lot of people have fallen away over the years?
@adamobrien_ (19:45.102)
Yeah, I think it's the mission, man. Like I think like pretty hard to build independence.
Brandon Gentile (20:09.139)
Yeah.
@adamobrien_ (20:11.726)
when you're not using the root core of what independence money is. And I honestly think, at first it was Bitcoin accessibility. How do we allow people to buy Bitcoin? Ultimately, if your mission is to have Bitcoin accessibility or independence, you are incapable of shilling some super thin altcoin. You're incapable of acting with Fiat.
in a custodial way. You're incapable of doing things that are counter Bitcoin because like the logic just doesn't allow for it to happen. Like you just, you're either just lying or you believe it. And so at the end of the day, yeah, the mission is very exciting to me. We're early, early in our days of the mission. And I think, don't get me wrong, there's ebbs and flows to the business and there's times where,
Brandon Gentile (20:41.511)
Yep.
@adamobrien_ (21:10.222)
Um, you know, selling the business or, or whatever seemed like the best thing to do. I think all that was just part of my Bitcoin journey and everyone's Bitcoin journey looks pretty similar. You know, you enter for the gains because that's all you hear about. And then you stay for the principles and the core values and, and, and the bumps and bruises along the way are really what hardened us as true Bitcoiners. And, and you know, like I think about the future.
quite a bit and I think about my great grandkids that I'll hopefully get to see one day and I just need to be able to look them in the eyes and be like, yo, we were Bitcoin, we helped this rise, we helped this peaceful revolution come to be. The reason we are here, the reason we've got a sovereign nation is in part because I worked so hard and we had this vision that we needed to be independent for the next -
you know, like whatever millennia and and and so yeah, it's really grounding that way. It's training, it's making a ton of mistakes. Like I've spent Bitcoin on dumb things. I've had the high time preference, like I've made the mistakes, man. And so I now get to hopefully share my story and help other people not make those mistakes.
Brandon Gentile (22:11.761)
Yeah.
Brandon Gentile (22:33.203)
And you hit the nail on the head right there. Stories are how people learn, right? It's parable stories and that's how humans learn. And we have, uh, right.
@adamobrien_ (22:40.478)
Dude, and that dates back, like, the printing press is what is, like, that's it, man. That's how we got it done, right? It was like, you weren't able to pass on knowledge for centuries. Like, for a really long time, we were just stuck. And then the printing press comes about, and we can just disseminate knowledge. And then internet comes, and that net gets wider. And it's like the natural progression of how humans evolve is so beautiful.
and it's all down to communication. And so to your point about like off the top, like why haven't you heard of me before? It's like I had my head in the sand and I wasn't thinking that way. I wasn't thinking that big. I was so focused on the what and not focused enough on the why. And I realize now the why is so important. What we do is so important. This conversation, other conversations like it.
people understanding how important Bitcoin is, how important taking custody of their Bitcoin is. And you know, like right here, like the 6102 reminder, like, guys, we gotta hold our coins. It's not gonna be a pleasant ride. It's not number go up rainbows and lambos forever. It's like, we're part of a revolution. And I think getting people on board with that, excited about that, inspired by that is a pretty positive thing.
Brandon Gentile (23:58.931)
I couldn't agree more. Like I said earlier, I mean, I think it was offline. I mean, kindred spirits, you know, you can just tell a lot of times when people's ethos, they come together, right? And same vibration. Why do people still fall for scams? Again, like I'm still like, I cannot, my brain cannot wrap my head. I mean, you say it so plainly, so beautifully and with passion, but not at the same time yelling at the top of your lungs, right? It's just so beautifully articulated. Why do people continually low, you know,
@adamobrien_ (24:07.208)
Totally.
Brandon Gentile (24:28.211)
lower their attention span, raise their time preference, and they fall for these scams. They're falling for whatever. You call it Ethereum, right? All the alts on down. Why are we continually going down this road of I'm gonna pump my bags here, or I'm gonna go to this world computer thing, and I'm gonna build, but again, you're building on sand until we fix this system, or created a new one and shifted to it. You're on the Titanic still. It doesn't matter what you create on the Titanic. It's still going 12 ,000 feet under the ocean. It doesn't matter.
@adamobrien_ (24:38.956)
All right.
@adamobrien_ (24:53.966)
It's going down. Yeah.
Brandon Gentile (24:56.819)
does not matter. And that's the thing I can't reconcile with myself, Adam. I just can't. I don't know. Help me out here.
@adamobrien_ (25:03.79)
think it's like it's yeah, it's a combination of some deep seated generational trauma, if you want to call it that. And and honestly, it's it's people not in Bitcoin for freedom. Like, we we come in, everybody comes in for gains. And frankly, Bitcoin is not the best place for gains, right? We all know that because but
Brandon Gentile (25:12.691)
Yeah, well said.
@adamobrien_ (25:26.446)
there's so much more to Bitcoin than fiat gains. And if you hold Bitcoin, if you lower your time preference, you understand why it exists, you know what's the better place to put your money, right? But it's not gonna be what grows your fiat value the fastest. And so the reason we flock towards scams, especially at certain points of the epoch, like what we're in right now, is the same reason like,
like the same reason people snort cocaine instead of just getting a good night's sleep. Like it's just like it's high time preference short term thinking like, you know, oh, I need some energy. What should I do? Pound a Red Bull and do a couple of lines and you're going to be flying. You're good to go. And you don't really think well, but in four years I'm going to have needles sticking out of my arms and probably not be able to think. And like that is the same thing. Like altcoins are heroin. Altcoins are cocaine.
Brandon Gentile (25:56.787)
Yeah.
Brandon Gentile (26:07.869)
Yes.
@adamobrien_ (26:20.942)
They are probably very, very fun for a short period of time and ultimately ruin your life. And so that's why our mission to enable independence is so key. We're not here to make people rich. I'm not like, I want to pump everyone's bags forever. Like that's not the case. That's, that's, that's not why we're here. We're here because people, my great, great, great grandson needs Bitcoin. And I know that for a fact that is facts. There's like, he needs Jesus and Bitcoin and like, like everything else is probably just like, you know,
comes and goes in waves. And so when we believe this, there's not really room for like altcoin du jour. There's not really room for like fiat scam of the day because I'm just focused on 2157, like the year 2157. I don't need more fiat in 2025. I need more Bitcoin in 2157. And the risk opportunity cost, like,
Brandon Gentile (26:59.923)
you
@adamobrien_ (27:17.71)
Sure, you know, there's an argument and I had this discussion with a lady last week. She's like, yeah, I dabble in the in the crypto casino to gain more Bitcoin. And I'm like, you got more balls than me because it's too scary there. Like the opportunity that I lose my Bitcoin in the crypto or the fiat casino is just too great. And frankly, like people ask me all the time, what's the next all the coin, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, guys, if you want to gamble, go to the casino, like here in Canada, casino wings are tax free, like just go play cards. It's like,
Brandon Gentile (27:27.315)
Hahaha!
@adamobrien_ (27:46.51)
you know, a little bit more fun, you can kind of like, it's like social, it's like way less stressful, like go play blackjack or like go to the roulette table, like whatever, don't just, it's so, so dangerous to play in that crypto casino. But yeah, the reason we do is because we're addicted because we've got this, this, this base foundation that is so sketchy, we're all like when, when, when the money sucks, we're all in a constant panic to spend, right? You got to spend, you got to invest, you got to get gains, you got to grow, you know,
Brandon Gentile (27:48.243)
Yes.
@adamobrien_ (28:15.566)
What are the report like inflation peaked at 18 % last year in the States or something mind blowing. Like that means if you're not making 18 % per year, you're losing like, holy smokes. That's crazy. You gotta, you gotta make 18 % to break even like that's, that's mind blowing. That's petrifying. And so we're in this constant state of panic. And honestly, it's like the greatest trick by the globalists because
You know, if you're in that state of spending all the time, you've got no savings and you're always going to be reliant on, on the globalist of the day. And that's, uh, yeah, it's like, it's, it's, it's a wicked Psyop man.
Brandon Gentile (28:55.507)
Yeah, so well said. I love it. Really, really quick timeout from our regular scheduled program here. Do you are you going to the Canadian Bitcoin Conference? Let's go.
@adamobrien_ (29:03.566)
Yeah, man, you bet I'm excited. So I'm gonna be this year. I'm gonna be at Bitblock boom in a few weeks. I'm gonna be in Montreal. I'm gonna be at mass adoption of the Freedom Festival in Boston. And then we're going to Nashville as well. So it should be a pretty sweet kind of Q2 Q3 here.
Brandon Gentile (29:13.619)
Nice.
Brandon Gentile (29:17.619)
Beautiful.
That's awesome. I think I'm going to I'll be at all those except I think mass adoption. I think I'm going bear hunting out West and like Idaho. So I'm in Michigan right now. So yeah, that weekend.
@adamobrien_ (29:25.58)
Nope, that'll be awesome. Good for you. I don't, I don't know. I don't have the patience for, we have some land in Alberta here and I've got some neighbors that, that hunt moose and, and, and elk out there. And they always give me some of the meat, which is like amazing. That is the better way for me. I don't think I could sit still in a forest. Like, I'm, yeah, I don't know, man. So good for you.
Brandon Gentile (29:39.827)
Oh nice.
You're a resourceful man. Yeah, you're a resourceful man. That's all. That's like, hey, smarter, smarter, not harder. All right, back. We're back here. I saw we had a tangent to everyone really quickly. So you kind of just touched on something made me think of this, which I want to segue just briefly don't spend too much time into this Ethereum talk and just explaining Ethereum, which will kind of help people I think realize in a way all the rest of the alts, you know, it's like if you kind of explain Ethereum for a minute.
It'll kind of people start to get the idea of like, oh, I kind of see what's going on here for a lot of what comes after. So the my my one thing that you just made me kind of think of to right before this was Bitcoin is the end, you know, right? Like we always say, oh, it's fire. It's a printing press. It's a wheel. And like that's the easy, like click baity way to think about it, I guess. But, you know, I'd love for you to touch on.
Bitcoin being, yeah, this was decades in the making, right? Like it wasn't like someone just all of a sudden like, oh, I just discovered Bitcoin. You know, like I just, it just came together. Like this was decades in the making. And now everyone thinks like everything that came after that. Yeah. It shuts off after Bitcoin, right? Like, can you explain that for people that way? Yeah.
@adamobrien_ (30:42.158)
No, exactly. Dude, it's like the encryption protocol from, yeah, like it's, it's incredible. It's so many different, it's so many different innovations, like layered on top of each other. Sorry, I keep cutting you off. Keep going.
Brandon Gentile (30:56.947)
No, no, I just think it's so important for people to realize all these alts. Like everything is, it's really, it's moot after Bitcoin because it was the end. Like we discovered fire truly and the meaning or what it represents when we say that it's like this was worked on for decades, encryption, the cypher pong for a decade, decades and decades, people trying to figure this out. And then it got figured out. So anything that comes after that.
you don't recreate fire, right? So I think that's a concept that people have a hard time. They think Bitcoin was a start of all this digital money and all this different stuff. So anyway, I'd love for you to touch on that briefly and then segue into kind of a theory, which is explaining that for a minute. And I think hopefully it'll make sense for people once they see this kind of the scales fall from the eyes.
@adamobrien_ (31:24.204)
Yeah.
@adamobrien_ (31:35.79)
Yeah. So Bitcoin is simply a representation of money and of, and of true money, which is just our value, right? Whereas everything else that we've, um, kind of invented, I suppose since then is using this like blockchain database system to get scalable database entries. And, and, and frankly, like Google sheets has a pretty good job of doing database entries. It's like, obviously pretty centralized, but you could argue so too, or literally every other blockchain other than Bitcoin. And the big confusion comes from.
What are we doing? Why do we want to use this token? And with Bitcoin is to store our value, right? With Ethereum, Solana, like, you know, all the other different blockchains that exist, the reason they're there is to pump fiat bags, or at least have an opportunity to have found the next best thing. Because I do believe that, you know, in the fiat world, in the fiat casino, you know, there was like the dot com bubble, and now there's like social media that's kind of like taken on and boom, now it's AI.
crypto is a piece of that and there will be platforms that make great businesses that succeed, but they're doing it under the false pretense that they're decentralized and that the same as Bitcoin. Like when I first got in Bitcoin, crypto and blockchain were all kind of like in this ball. They were all kind of together and it was all like one in the same. Like honestly, it was like, you know, if someone said, Oh, Adam runs a blockchain company, I would have accepted it. It's like, okay, sure. Like that's just, yes. But now, you know, we're seeing like,
Blockchain is kind of like out on its own, you know, people do their own blockchain stuff not even to do with money or crypto as a whole then there's crypto which is just like basically a token to run the database and then there's Bitcoin being sound money, right? The Bitcoin token doesn't run the database. The database is a representation of everyone's value. The Bitcoin token is the representation or sorry, the Bitcoin token sitting on that blockchain is the proof of work.
that we have actually earned and that that that token of value is actually meaningful. And so that sits in its own cupboard on its own sphere. Boom on its own. You know, when you're buying ETH, you're basically buying like the future. If it is the future of the internet and if all the smart contract dreams that we're being told about are all real, you're basically just buying credits to the future of the internet. Like you're buying a gift card to the future of the internet, right? The same could be said of like,
Brandon Gentile (33:53.267)
you
Brandon Gentile (34:01.299)
Yeah.
@adamobrien_ (34:03.598)
If HTTP had a token, ETH is just that. Like we can all access the internet, the HTTP protocol on our own for free through like a browser. You don't need any HTTP tokens to do that. The only difference between HTTP and the Ethereum network is that the Ethereum network, you need ETH to participate. And that's like, that's the big difference. And I think too, like, honestly, I think ETH is the worst one because it's too, it's too decentralized.
to be scalable. It's not fast enough, right? For this high time preference. Like think about the difference between like a Bitcoiner who's like walking around with holes in his shoes, you know, just stacking sats like a hero. And like the, you know, the JPEG like junkie that's like, oh, my confirmations are not fast enough. Like, like I'm dying here. I need more monkeys. Like, you know, like the diabolical differences between the two individuals just show you where the time preferences are at. And honestly, I,
I think Ethereum is too decentralized to be like to suit those people, but it's too centralized to be safe. And it just doesn't solve the root problem. Like the key, the absolute key to sound money is that you it's scarce. You just absolutely need a supply cap. And, and there's just a bunch of fake supply caps that exist in crypto. Bitcoin is the only one that truly has a supply cap.
Brandon Gentile (35:28.371)
Yeah.
@adamobrien_ (35:32.494)
And then next to that, divisibility, transferability, the ability for it to be authenticated, all of these things hit Bitcoin so well, and some of them hit ETH and the Ethereum network and all the other tokens that are popping up. But they don't provide any function, they don't provide any true real value to actually store our time. And so,
Yeah, at the end of the day, the key difference there is why do you want to get into the ecosystem? Well, I want to store my value in a place that will transport my value that I create today into the future. It's like, great, you need Bitcoin, go for it. It's like, why do you want to get in here? Well, I want to buy credits to the potential future of smart contracts. It's like, okay, then you should buy ETH and like, good for you. Maybe your ETH credits, you know, your, your Ethereum credits go up a thousand X, right? Good for you, but maybe they don't.
Like it is guaranteed that Bitcoin will transport your value into the future. It is not guaranteed that Ethereum is the future of smart contracts. And so it's like, where's your risk at? Like what's your risk tolerance? People, people think like people think they need to diversify and that Ethereum and Bitcoin are the same. That just comes down to education. It comes down to a lack of resources. And honestly, this is the biggest problem with decentralization is that there's no single source, which is like,
the long -term benefit, but the short -term demise. And so it can get tricky.
Brandon Gentile (36:59.731)
Yes.
Brandon Gentile (37:03.507)
Well said. Man, oh man. That's a whole different thing. We can go down that for hours too. Really, really quickly, I know we're getting somewhat towards the end here. What is, what was your orange pill story? So again, you were just remind everyone you were starting businesses in Bitcoin in 2013, 11 years ago. So what was your orange pill story that that led you to, hey, I'm here. This is unreal. I'm starting a business. What did that look like?
@adamobrien_ (37:28.398)
Yeah, I found Bitcoin early 2013. And you know, like, it would just hit 100 bucks and just piqued my interest. And I was like, Whoa, you know, this is fake. Like, there's no way this is real. These guys are idiots. Like, look at these dumb, you know, gamers that think Bitcoin is going to be something. Let me like troll on them a little bit. And then you learn about Bitcoin. And it's like, hmm.
Brandon Gentile (37:39.379)
you
@adamobrien_ (37:53.646)
you know, what is why why is money important? And what am I trying to do with my money? And then, you know, what is the history of money, actually? I'm like, Oh, encryption. That's interesting. I wonder, I wonder why that's important. And then like, before you know it, you're just, you know, like the crazy guy, you know, I've got the little actor's name, he's like got the cigarette out of his mouth with like all the all the string lines behind him on the like, that's that that's me, like after like, you know, a month and a half of like, really solid, like, you know, insane.
just obsessive investigation, it's like, oh wow, this is the real deal. But again, it's still for gains. And then it's like, well, I have to try buying some. And so you buy some, it's like a terrible experience. And then it's like, okay, well, maybe I will, you know, maybe I'll try selling it myself. And then I sell some and I've got a bit of a better customer experience. I'm like, like my first ever Bitcoin experience, like back alley, like super sketchy, like no help.
I'm like petrified. I'm just like, you know, I'm basically a teenager and and like, you know, trying to buy Bitcoin in the back alley. There's no like exchanges. No, man. It was crazy. Yeah, it was not easy at all. And so so that's like, that's one thing. And then and then I'm like, well, I'll meet people in Starbucks and we'll have a coffee and chat about Bitcoin. I'll like help them set up a wallet like, you know, just like little things like that. And then kind of just fell in love with, you know, and then with with
Brandon Gentile (38:58.003)
It wasn't easy then just for like for people that are newer to the space. It was not there was not like easy way. Yeah. Yeah.
@adamobrien_ (39:20.462)
teaching people how Bitcoin works. And then, you know, on and on it goes and, and, and there's more and more people, there's like dopamine hitting me every time I'm helping someone. They're like, wow, this is the future. This is so cool. So yeah, I guess the orange pill story, there's not like an aha moment. I didn't like, you know, it wasn't like, oh yeah, I ran into Andreas Antonopoulos during his like Bitcoin OG days and like, and he like smacked me over the head and then Safedine came and like bought me with his book and then that was it. It was like, just
the natural progression of you learn about Bitcoin, you're there to disprove it, then you gotta learn about money and the history of money and economics and encryption and all the fun things that Bitcoin is. And then you can learn about buying it, and then you can learn about storing it, and then you lose it all, and then you repeat. And honestly, that's the story. Yeah, it's a boring one.
Brandon Gentile (39:52.659)
Mm -hmm.
Brandon Gentile (40:10.035)
Yeah.
@adamobrien_ (40:19.886)
It's been exciting to get.
Brandon Gentile (40:22.419)
I think it's so cool. And this is what I think, of course, I went on a tangent earlier, but you were talking about stories, right? And we, you know, the Bible, Jesus, you know, this is how humans learn his stories. And I think, again, one of the most important stories is telling that story. And, you you telling yours, me telling mine, everyone telling their story, because, you know, like we can see here with the facts, Oh, it's 21 million and this and that, but no one cares at the end of the day, like no one out there really cares. We're trying to orange pill or educate someone. It's, you what were these things that happened that changed me emotionally, physically, whatever, and then trying to convey that.
emotional state to the next person and stories are how we do that. So I think that's why it's it really is so important because everyone's is different and everyone's going to connect to a different thing. So appreciate you sharing that. What do you think the last 10 years, again, 10, 11 years, you've been in the space now 11 years, what do you think the next decade looks like to you? Having seen, you know, really close to the beginning of this and kind of watching this all the way through more than most people have the experience of. What do you see? I know it's a very loaded.
But like even like just off the cuff thoughts of like what you see coming in in the coming years next, you know epoch or so But you know next you know couple epochs
@adamobrien_ (41:29.806)
Yeah, man, I think, I do think we'll continue to see the decoupling of Bitcoin, crypto and the blockchain. I think we're gonna continue to see people, like people right now are so lucky. The opportunity to jump in and just like front run all of the mistakes that you and I and others have made, jump straight into a Bitcoin only kind of savings mindset. There's so much benefit to that. I think if I had just stack stats instead of like,
all the other things that I did, it would be so good. And so I think there's going to be a lot of hardcore Bitcoiners born over the next little while. Ultimately, though, and like, I don't want to be like all, you know, doom gloom, like blah, blah. But I do think there's a little bit of pain coming with like, you know, if you don't have your coins in self custody, if you're not doing the responsible thing with like UTXO management, like there is a little bit of nuance to being
sovereign individual. And I don't know that our society is ready for that nuance. And so we went through this period. It's like, we're just not preparing our kids, we're not preparing the next generation to be sovereign. And so I think that Bitcoin will act as the root cause for sovereignty. And I think it will be
Brandon Gentile (42:33.163)
Just say it, just say it Adam. Yeah.
@adamobrien_ (42:56.162)
read out of it a bunch of like Bitcoin adjacent, you know, companies or or missions and like an example of that's gonna be like education like, it's so crazy, man. When you're hanging out with Bitcoiners, you're all aligned, you're all like, education should look like this. It's like, yep, yep, yep. It's like social media should look like this. Yep, yep, yep. Like, you know, the human diet should look like this. Yep, yep, yep. Like it's like, we're all just aligned because we're all like, like, there's some people I haven't even met.
Brandon Gentile (43:11.635)
Yes.
@adamobrien_ (43:24.526)
And it's like, what's up? Like you Dap them up and it's like, it's like, it's like, oh yeah, we are like, like, like you and I, it's like, we are hyper aligned on most things. Um, I gave our presentation in, in Costa Rica this January. Um, it was called Jesus is a Bitcoiner, which is like super awesome presentation that I'm really excited to be giving more of this year. And, and I put, uh, like I put just different themes on the, in one of the slides of presentations. There's like say I think six or seven themes like pharma, you know, nutrition, education, like whatever centralized.
And it's like in the presentation, I'm literally like, I am quite confident that every single person sitting here is going to have the same beliefs that I do about this only because like we're Bitcoiners, we've got our ethos like formed in sovereignty and we know what sovereignty means for that. So it comes back down to the why. So where does it go over the next decade? I think Bitcoiners starting non Bitcoin businesses are going to be so clutch and so key because that's going to be the next onboarding.
wave to Bitcoin. People, you and I, our onboarding generation, we were onboarded for gains. But down the line, people are gonna be onboarded for the freedom. And that's gonna be so good. But when that starts happening, I think it'll only be because there's a necessity for freedom, which means there's a bunch of non -freedom going on, which kinda sucks.
Brandon Gentile (44:24.947)
Yeah. Wow, that was very well said. I don't know how you threaded that needle.
with how you said that. Wow. Very politically correct. Bam. Beautiful. Holy cow. I know we're getting towards the end here. What this other thing, this is twice now I have tried to make this darn point and I keep going on tangents, whatever. But it's in you just kind of touched on it, which is we've gone like Bitcoiners have gone through the gauntlet. Why the stories are so important and what you just explained here because.
@adamobrien_ (44:54.862)
Hahaha!
Brandon Gentile (45:16.753)
Bitcoiners have gone through the gauntlet. Again, we didn't wake up one day, oh, I've got a thousand Bitcoin, I've got 10 ,000, I've got 10, I've got one Bitcoin. It's hard work that went into it. It's thousands of hours of studying, it's hard work, it's digging ditches, it's doing your fiat mining jobs, you convert it into Bitcoin or trading peer to peer or service for, you name it. It's being in altcoins or shitcoins and then getting rugged or whatever it is. Being in gold or being in stocks and getting rugged or whatever it is.
@adamobrien_ (45:25.824)
Yeah.
Brandon Gentile (45:45.139)
That's the journey every Bitcoiner has to take. And you touched on that very early on, but I think that's what's so key because people just look at it like Bitcoiners, you're going to have all the wealth. It's like, well, yeah, everyone that moved to North America 400, 500 years ago, they obtained a lot of wealth that my family didn't get an opportunity for. You know, a lot of our families didn't get an opportunity to get Malibu real estate or Miami real estate, you know, and it is what it is. That's how life works. But we put the hours in. Those people fought for 500 years ago, crossed the ocean.
My family didn't right away. You know, like they took longer to go to make the decision. Like, you know what, we should do that. So this can be the same in Bitcoin. And I think that's something very real that people are going to, like you said, learn these lessons and it's incumbent on us to educate people through that. But we've all been through that gauntlet. So in. Yeah, go with that term.
@adamobrien_ (46:25.802)
Yeah, man. No, I think that's such a great analogy. And like, we need to make better ways to cross the ocean. And that's how we're going to help as many people as possible.
gather this wealth. But like the nice thing about it is like, people got a hard time with the supply cap, like all the wealth, it's like, all the wealth already exists. Like, all the wealth is just simply how much value can a society produce. The problem is that we keep seeing number go up, because the wealth is decreasing, the actual purchasing power of that wealth is just decreasing. And so it's like, it's an unfair system right now, Bitcoin levels it out, we actually want
Brandon Gentile (46:58.291)
So cool, man, there's so many other things that we could touch on here. I love that article, by the way. You'll have to share it with me. This is a Bitcoin or the presentation.
@adamobrien_ (47:06.1)
all the wealth to be in circulation. That way it's like, if you keep providing value, you'll be able to keep living a good life. And if you stop providing value, then you're gonna have to provide more value to live a good life. Like, that's just what it comes down to and that's how it should be. Yeah.
Brandon Gentile (47:28.243)
I love that. It's a whole different topic for another day for sure that we get into at some point, maybe the conference, maybe it in Montreal or something like that we can record a little thing on. Oh, nice. Beautiful. Oh, that's awesome. Very cool. Really quick before I play, we play a little word association game to rapier. Well, do you think government like, again, it's kind of loaded, but you know, attacking.
@adamobrien_ (47:35.022)
Yeah, I'll actually, I think I'm either giving it in Montreal or I'm on a, I don't remember, but I'm talking on the subject in Montreal, so it should be pretty good.
@adamobrien_ (47:50.23)
Okay.
Brandon Gentile (47:58.227)
It just feels in many ways, like whether it was the Canadian truckers or here in America, things going on, and they're going to find these crazier and crazier ways as the fiat man in the water, the drowning fiat man in the water is just continually grasping at things. Do you sense something where they're going to continue trying to come after? Like you said, there's going to be a lot of non -freedom going on in the future, which gives us more freedom inherently. I mean, is that kind of what you see just happening in the fore? Because that's what I see.
@adamobrien_ (48:19.662)
Yeah.
@adamobrien_ (48:25.678)
Yeah, I do think so. I think ultimately the like the biggest risk is just not taking self custody of your Bitcoin. The biggest risk is your Bitcoin sitting like you having Bitcoin exposure in an ETF you having Bitcoin sitting in an exchange somewhere like, you know, the majority of Bitcoin exchanges just use Coinbase for custody. So it's like, you know what I mean? Like it's it's all centralized. Like, you know, there's a reason 6102 is on my wall behind me. It's because it's a stark reminder that when your Bitcoin is not in your custody, like, yeah, 100%.
Brandon Gentile (48:41.451)
Right. Yeah. Yep. And they've admitted it. The what's Brian Armstrong's admitted? Yeah, I'm gonna give it up. I have to if the government comes right. So. Right.
@adamobrien_ (48:56.418)
Yeah. Yeah, he I mean, like, yeah, like, obviously, he will right gun to his daughter's head, like, he doesn't care about you and I like he doesn't care whatsoever. Right? It's like, it's like, no, like, I am going to give the Bitcoin up. And so like, how do you do that? It's like just
Brandon Gentile (49:10.003)
Yes.
@adamobrien_ (49:12.078)
don't give him that opportunity. Like take the Bitcoin away from him into your self custody. I think that's why 1933 worked is because gold was so difficult to transport Bitcoin is so easy to transport so simple to self custody that it you know, it's kind of a it's kind of a no brainer. It's kind of the Holy Grail. We have a second chance here guys, our grandfathers, our grandmothers, they lost their value. They gave the government to the gold, they gave the gold to the government.
Brandon Gentile (49:39.187)
Beautiful stuff man. Alright, we I want to play a little word session game with you and really quick before that and I keep saying this but really quick.
@adamobrien_ (49:41.646)
And we have an opportunity to say, wow, let's learn from that mistake. Let's take our Bitcoin, our value into our self custody. And let's not let that happen. And like, that's just the answer. It's like, it's not rocket science. I don't think.
Brandon Gentile (50:06.035)
Logan Paul, I know you've got a little thing cards growing up. Obviously, I lead marketing and Bitcoin trading cards. And you have a little backstory with like Logan Paul, his Pokemon card, everything. When did you get into cards? You collect and hockey cards growing up as a kid? Like, how did how does this journey really start with you?
@adamobrien_ (50:22.126)
Yeah, Pokemon, my dad remembers just taking me to 7 -Eleven every Saturday. And we actually, we were just talking about this this week. And he was like, you know, every time you'd spend your money on those cards, I thought, oh, wow, those things are going to be garbage in next year. And like Pokemon is just like, I've got like this, yeah, you know, this insane amount of nostalgia for, for Pokemon. I collected growing up, it's like super high time preference Fiat.
Brandon Gentile (50:36.015)
Thank you.
@adamobrien_ (50:45.492)
you know, blah, blah, the Pokemon and hockey stuff. But I just, it's definitely, you know, an emotional nostalgia thing. Love the cards. I think they're so cool, collectible, something real. It's part of the story. I think it's fantastic.
Brandon Gentile (51:03.763)
Good stuff brother. Alright word association game presented by Bitcoin trading cards. I'm just going to give you a lightning round here and probably 15 or so words and just whatever you know the one word that comes up to your mind right away with within within the guardrails. I guess if you will. So Satoshi Nakamoto. Tesla. AI.
@adamobrien_ (51:13.662)
Okay. Okay, sure. An amenity. Energy. Danger.
Brandon Gentile (51:34.191)
Gary Vaynerchuk Elon Musk Faith Education Disruption Vitalik Buterin
@adamobrien_ (51:37.966)
marketing insane important wrong important again that's kind of a cop -out
@adamobrien_ (52:02.606)
Fake Bitcoin.
Brandon Gentile (52:04.403)
Freedom. Government. Time preference.
@adamobrien_ (52:10.592)
Anti -freedom.
@adamobrien_ (52:15.066)
Low. Misguided. Based.
Brandon Gentile (52:18.483)
that. I didn't wow like that Bitcoin maximalist Canadian truckers
Brandon Gentile (52:30.715)
Mentorship. Bitcoin trading cards.
@adamobrien_ (52:33.398)
Needed.
@adamobrien_ (52:37.966)
Cool.
Brandon Gentile (52:39.255)
Bitcoin well.
@adamobrien_ (52:42.422)
Independence.
Brandon Gentile (52:43.635)
And lastly, Adam O 'Brien's brand.
@adamobrien_ (52:49.262)
Up forever, Laura.
Brandon Gentile (52:53.207)
Oh, amazing. Good stuff, dude. Well, hey, I appreciate you being a playable character in this world. This sea of non -playable characters, that's for dang sure. Kindred spirits, we could do this for hours and we'll have to do much more in the future. I appreciate it, Adam, so much. Thanks for coming on.
@adamobrien_ (53:04.59)
Dude, and we should and we will. Let's, uh, you know what? We've got, we're going to have a big house in Montreal. I'll bring some studio gear. Actually. Yeah. I'm going to start setting this up. We'll chop it up. Um, and, and start, start having some conversations.
Brandon Gentile (53:15.987)
to hockey stories. We have lavish. I already told lavish we got to have some hockey stories. We got to get together and chop it up. Yeah, I'm gonna play. Yeah.
@adamobrien_ (53:22.094)
Are you playing?
Okay, cool. I'm not going to play. I broke my femur playing hockey and I'm like, I don't think I got the, I don't have the gas anymore, but I'm going to be, I'm going be on the mic, I think, or I'll be involved in some ways. It should be fun.
Brandon Gentile (53:31.603)
I don't blame it. Oh, let's go. Let's go. Dude. Appreciate it, brother. I look forward to it so much. Is this a blast?
@adamobrien_ (53:41.326)
Thanks, Brandon. Take care.
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